Curse

aeronox · Aug 25, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

part of the thrill of being mesmer is that you DON'T know your enemy's energy! if we did, alot of the risk is removed, since any skill depending on the enemy energy will now work exactly as planned!
no, i love mesmer, but we must never be able to know the enemy's energy. imagine the abuse, Mind Wrack would be easy, and no more useless energy burns on 0-energy foes.... there would simply be too much certainty, in what is the most uncertain and unknowable class in the game.

on allies, though, i fully agree! it is particularly annoying, having been monk, when i am my mesmer fighting away and the team starts to die off, next thing I know i'm all alone. was there a call for retreat? no. did the monk spam 0 energy? no. even if they did, i'm not sure we would notice. if I could see the energy bar of an ally monk, for example, i would know how much damage we are taking, and whether we may need to change tactics. i don't always notice ally health, but give me the monk's energy, and i would be a much more concienscious player!

and having not played necro to a high level, i cant really comment on their viewpoint, but i imagine it would be highly value by the blood mages, giving them more control over their level of support... SO MANY TIMES i've had Blood Ritual cast on me when i'm fine for energy, but it isn't their fault.

i think allies should be able to see each other's energy level - a number would be better than a bar, though more cumbersome to implement - a number because what if an E/Mo healer has low energy storage, and people naturally expect 30% energy to be sufficient, but really it isn't.. or something like that... but, i suppose a bar would do.

now that i've read through the posts, there seems an argument over how a player can currently discern an enemy's energy level. well, any good mesmer will go for a) monks b) elementalists... and, any experienced mesmer will have learned to anticipate actions and predict effects... on energy and on the playing field. being masters of prevention, we have learned to guess at enemy energy... MESMERS are the only ones who can REALLY turn this knowledge to their DIRECT ADVANTAGE!

if you give mesmers this much, the game will become unbalanced, and mesmers will be nerfed, and i will miss the old days of uncertainty and risk.

i venture to presume that those who petition FOR seeing enemy energy, have not played mesmer, and do not know that to know this would open too many opportunities to imagine.

i am against it because i don't want to see the playing field unbalanced; sure, I could probably Dominate anything i play... but then the nerfs will come.

i also believe that energy/mana is arcane, mysterious, and the "hidden" brother to health. it is not shown, because that's the way the game was built, and it was for very valid reasons! dont ask, just think.

-- Talented mesmers will instantly realise the incredible advantage such a modification would give. At the moment they are unfavourable because not many play them well. That does not mean they are inherently weak or in need of a boost, certainly NOT!

this post is somewhat messy - but i think i have got my point across: no to seeing foe's energy.

pappayaponta · Aug 25, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I TOTALY Agree! Espacially for me who is a warrior who need back-up heal from monks and then if i would know they dont have mana i dont need to run and do a Suicide-mission =D

cizrage · Oct 31, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

there are two parts of this suggestions and i am totally agreed with the point of showing allies energy status..

and i understand we are still arguing about showing foes energy..

and the following is my opinion..
i consider in skill based game like GW, energy is the second-life for the players.. life and death depends on the energy and usability of skills.. and i think we should be able to manipulate as much as the health.. and that's when the energy bar come in.. (agreed with Thanas)

and i second the point that Thanas said.. if we can monitor the energy lvl visually.. the stratigies to attack the second life of the opponent will be more developed and widely used, just like attacking the primary life..

and for those who can easily monitor energy and expert in energy denial will be upset of coz.. as more ppl will find it easy to master the skill that for those who took a long time to be well versed in..

so, showing foe's energy will improve the tatic and strategy on the game ply, imo.. so i say show the energy bar on enemy..

Urda · Oct 31, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

/notsignet

Its ok for the own team, since anyone can CTRL-click the manabar anyway.
This part is then just an UI-improvment and not unballanced and helps necros a lot, improves teamplay.

But never for the enmies manabar.
Makes it way more easier to crush casters.
Lots of people dont attack you, because they think you have mana, even if you do have 5< for real.
Showing the enemies manabar is nothing else then a boost for only 3 professions : warrrior, ranger, mesmer. nothing else imho.
And thats definitly unballanced.

The_Janitor · Oct 31, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Should only be for allies, for enemies that'll be too much stuff to look at.

/signed

Josh · Oct 31, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Raven

That's the downside of being an elementalist (or other heavy energy using class) in a group.

All the big, buff warriors running around and aggroing everything in sight and not waiting for your energy to recharge before attacking another group.

Example:

Me : "Please wait a sec. I need some time to recharge my Energy!"
Warrior: "Elem are such dead weight. Why don't you just GTFO!"

Unfortunately, this happens most of the time.

I usually Ctrl-Click on my energy bar to inform everyone about the status of my Energy reserves.

But i agree with you completely.

Oh, well when I Ctrl+Click to tell them my Energy they just ignore me and carry on, when I ask why they say "stfu" and carry on...So I just Mission/Farm/SF/UW/FoW with just my Guildies now as it's practically everyone I team with saying it. I do massive high energy usage combos to do loads of damage and they just tell me to "stfu" when I ask them to wait for energy regen.

Nighteye · Oct 31, 2005, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I think I signed this earlier, but I should add that it should be allies-only.

kendaki · Nov 01, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I fully agree with this idea. I mean you can see their health, weather or not they have a hex, enchantment, or condition. Why not see energy? Realisticly speaking you could tell when an enemy is exhausted and doesn't have much energy so why not represent that with the energy bar?

/signed

Hot Dead · Nov 01, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

/signed
I play a battery necro sometimes, and the monk, elementalist, ranger, other necro, etc. forget to ctrl+click their energy bars, and sometimes even when their energy is almost full (80%) i regen their energy.

RTSFirebat · Mar 26, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

/bump

Just had to bump this thread up, now I'm not sure if this is being implemented into Factions, but if not...

Why are we still unable to view the energy of our team mates? I mean who cares about other mobs and teams, but why hasn't this been implemented?

With the additions of Alliance battles I think its ever more important for us to be able to view our allies energy levels?

A.net members, please read this and implement energy bars in party windows

Nightwish · Mar 26, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeronox

part of the thrill of being mesmer is that you DON'T know your enemy's energy! if we did, alot of the risk is removed, since any skill depending on the enemy energy will now work exactly as planned!
no, i love mesmer, but we must never be able to know the enemy's energy. imagine the abuse, Mind Wrack would be easy, and no more useless energy burns on 0-energy foes.... there would simply be too much certainty, in what is the most uncertain and unknowable class in the game.

on allies, though, i fully agree! it is particularly annoying, having been monk, when i am my mesmer fighting away and the team starts to die off, next thing I know i'm all alone. was there a call for retreat? no. did the monk spam 0 energy? no. even if they did, i'm not sure we would notice. if I could see the energy bar of an ally monk, for example, i would know how much damage we are taking, and whether we may need to change tactics. i don't always notice ally health, but give me the monk's energy, and i would be a much more concienscious player!

and having not played necro to a high level, i cant really comment on their viewpoint, but i imagine it would be highly value by the blood mages, giving them more control over their level of support... SO MANY TIMES i've had Blood Ritual cast on me when i'm fine for energy, but it isn't their fault.

i think allies should be able to see each other's energy level - a number would be better than a bar, though more cumbersome to implement - a number because what if an E/Mo healer has low energy storage, and people naturally expect 30% energy to be sufficient, but really it isn't.. or something like that... but, i suppose a bar would do.

now that i've read through the posts, there seems an argument over how a player can currently discern an enemy's energy level. well, any good mesmer will go for a) monks b) elementalists... and, any experienced mesmer will have learned to anticipate actions and predict effects... on energy and on the playing field. being masters of prevention, we have learned to guess at enemy energy... MESMERS are the only ones who can REALLY turn this knowledge to their DIRECT ADVANTAGE!

if you give mesmers this much, the game will become unbalanced, and mesmers will be nerfed, and i will miss the old days of uncertainty and risk.

i venture to presume that those who petition FOR seeing enemy energy, have not played mesmer, and do not know that to know this would open too many opportunities to imagine.

i am against it because i don't want to see the playing field unbalanced; sure, I could probably Dominate anything i play... but then the nerfs will come.

i also believe that energy/mana is arcane, mysterious, and the "hidden" brother to health. it is not shown, because that's the way the game was built, and it was for very valid reasons! dont ask, just think.

-- Talented mesmers will instantly realise the incredible advantage such a modification would give. At the moment they are unfavourable because not many play them well. That does not mean they are inherently weak or in need of a boost, certainly NOT!

this post is somewhat messy - but i think i have got my point across: no to seeing foe's energy.

Agreed with your points wholeheartedly. I believe that the OP does play Edenial based builds, which is probably why he strongly supports this buff to the Edenial strategy.

As a Edenial Mesmer player myself, I know that alot of mesmers will love this change. However, seeing enemies' energy bar gives too much of an advantage to the mesmers. Even now, edenial mesmers pretty solid - just imagine that, with this buff, they will be able to drain energy 100% effectively all the time.

The only thing that balances edenial strategy is its slight gamble aspect. If I can surge, burn, mindwrack and drain fully every single time, I will not even give other builds a second look.

Seeing allies bar is more appropriate, we can save time ctrl-clicking the bar during battle to alert the batteries.

Seeing an enemy's health bar does not guarantee your eviscerate will land the full damage/effect but seeing an enemy's energy will most likely to guarantee your esurge/burn dealing the max energy loss.

The Chimpster · Mar 26, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Allies only

/signed

Mandy Memory · Mar 27, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

signed and signed again

Falcon213 · Mar 27, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

A large part of this game is communicating information that you have and the rest of your party doesn't. If you're not on vent, then a simple ctrl+click on your energy bar will do the trick. If no one listens to that, then who's going to pay attention to your energy bar?

As for showing energy of enemies, that's just ridiculous. Mesmers are powerful enough as it is. Also, this is another part of information gathering and sharing. It's not too hard to guess about where someone's energy bar is by watching them and knowing what your mesmers are doing, unless a necro puts BiP or Blood Rit on them. And that shouldn't be something that's too obvious.

Phoenix Arrows · Mar 27, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Energy bars for your allies: Good idea
Energy bars for your foes: Bad idea

E-Surge Mesmers already beat the crap out of every Monk, so why make it even easier by letting them know when the time is right for them to Surge the Energy into oblivion? For allies it's ok, as unless you have a friend on the other team and you're telling him the Energy status of everyone on your team, it makes BiP Necros have an easier job. Also, a Monk in trouble wont have to try running around and pinging their Energy at the same time ^^.

Anyways, Energy bar on Allies, but not Foes.

shardfenix · Mar 27, 2006, 12:00 PM // 12:00

so e-denial mesmers can see whether they need to waste energy on you or not?
Good players know exactly how much energy someone has at any given time. We don't need an energy bar.
And while you're at it, why not add an adrenaline bar, an intelligence bar, a morale bar, maybe even a time played bar? those would be nice too.

RTSFirebat · Mar 27, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon213

A large part of this game is communicating information that you have and the rest of your party doesn't. If you're not on vent, then a simple ctrl+click on your energy bar will do the trick. If no one listens to that, then who's going to pay attention to your energy bar?

As for showing energy of enemies, that's just ridiculous. Mesmers are powerful enough as it is. Also, this is another part of information gathering and sharing. It's not too hard to guess about where someone's energy bar is by watching them and knowing what your mesmers are doing, unless a necro puts BiP or Blood Rit on them. And that shouldn't be something that's too obvious.

Ok lets just forget about the idea of showing the energy of Enemies, that is just plain stupid.

But I have to say using ctrl+click on your energy bar is a real pain in the ass, and is also useless. With the amount of battle information and text going about its impossible to tell people your current energy without spamming... which everyone hates.

There is no reason A.net could not implement a energy bar view into the party window, the code is already there for energy afterall, and it would be such a good feature.

Not everyone has vent or TS... not everyone wants to spam their currently energy level.

A.Net is feature is long overdue and I'm very disappointed that this hasn't been added into Factions.

nugzta · Mar 27, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

/Signed for energy bar shown on allies only

mariano · Mar 31, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

In my view to be able to see the energy bar of foes is not pertinent; because many energy related skills would become too obvious, then the game would become too mechanical.

I would suggest that whenever a player A is selected by any player B, it were possible for player B to read all the stats of A on going damage, heal and energy stats: those red, blue and purple numbers with + and - signes and the labels which rise over a character. These numbers disappear quickly, thus even if this suggestion were implemented, it would not be a so obvious information as to ruin the gameplay.

I play a mesmer more often than other professions.

Some skills, Energy Surge, let you know whether the target had 10 energy or less; because the red number for damaged is less than +80 (at dom. 16).

Also, if you use Mind Wrack and it is not triggered you know that the target has not reached 0 energy, but, if Mind Wrack is triggered you know that the target has no energy and you may then recast Mind Wrack; Mind Wrack is easy to be triggered in a warrior.

A difficult comes when you use Ether Feast or Energy Drain and your main purpose is to get health or energy, because you do not know whether the target has enough energy for it; but, the solution to this may be other (for example, to add 1 more healing skill in Inspiration Magic; to improve monk's energy management skills).

actionjack · Nov 30, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Simple suggestion that has been suggested by other befoe. Show the energy bar of your hench and heroes, under their HP bar in the allie window or on top of their head. Would also like to extend it to mob as well, thus you can better pick your target. (especially for mesmer)

Of couse, also need to include an toggle option to turn it on and off.